Mike Ashley is a walking (waddling?) disaster for Newcastle United, no doubt about it.

Overall, this summer’s approach to the transfer window is a nightmare, absolutely.

The idea of refusing to give your manager a transfer budget, especially with the revenues generated, is quite ludicrous.

However, there has been certain positive changes to come out of this transfer window, with Mike Ashley changing his policy in certain ways.

Not surprisingly in the overall chaos, this has passed most people by.

Last summer Newcastle signed six players, 21 year old Mikel Merino on a loan with nominal number of games to trigger a permanent transfer, 22 year old Jacob Murphy, 23 year old Manquillo, 25 year old Atsu, 26 year old Lejeune, and 27 year old Joselu.

Rafa Benitez was blocked last summer from bringing in the odd veteran such as Willy Caballero, older players who would have no resale value.

Ashley also wouldn’t give the go ahead to loan deals with big loan fees attached, as well as no option to buy. Tammy Abraham a case in point, the striker eventually going to Swansea instead, who were reported to have paid £5m to loan him for the season (as well as almost £8m to loan Renato Sanches from Bayern Munich).

The insistence on younger players was never better seen than in summer 2015. Yes, significant money was at last spent , but Mike Ashley was still looking at an investment for the future and especially the potential return/profit when sold, so despite having only stayed up on the final day of the 2014/15 season, that summer (2015) Newcastle (Mike Ashley and Graham Carr) put their faith in buying a 19 year old (Toney, two 20 year olds (Mitro and Mbemba), a 22 year old (Thauvin), and a 24 year old (Wijnaldum) – all recruited from weaker leagues and with no experience of the Premier League.

Moving forward to the present day and whilst of course Mike Ashley’s actions are a total joke, he has at least allowed Rafa Benitez to have more freedom in who he goes for, once players have been sold and money generated…

Newcastle United are bringing in players who will have little or no resale value when they eventually leave St James Park.

Ki Sung-yueng turns 30 in January, Martin Dubravka also turning 30 that month, Salomon Rondon is expected to sign any day soon and he will be 29 in September.

Fabian Schar will be 27 in December, whilst the youngest buy so far is 26 year old Yoshinori Muto.

As for Kenedy, this time Newcastle will have had to pay a significant loan fee of £Xm this time, as well as his Chelsea wage bill for the season, all of it money that Mike Ashley knows he will never see again.

It is ironic that these signings are now being financed by selling 23 year old Mitrovic, 22 year old Merino, 23 year old Mbemba, and 26 year old Matz Sels.

As usual, nothing makes sense with Mike Ashley and his approach to Newcastle United and transfers, apart from spending as little as possible of course.

Any ideas that this summer’s transfers are being done with any intention of building for the future, have been blown away.

If you thought this summer couldn’t have been worse, then just imagine if as well as no transfer funds (without sales first), Mike Ashley had also insisted on Rafa Benitez only buying younger players from weaker leagues with resale value. Personally, I think that would have guaranteed relegation.

At least the likes of Ki, Rondon, Kenedy and Dubravka have all shown, to varying degrees, that they can do it in the Premier League, whilst Schar has played in both the Bundesliga and La Liga, as well as in the Champions League.

This is simply a case of an attempt by Rafa Benitez to survive in the Premier League for one more season, having been left with no other option when Mike Ashley refused to allow him any transfer budget, without selling players first.

With Ashley also knocking back Rafa’s pleas to make some much belated investment in the Academy set-up and the state of the art training complex that was promised five years ago, just another reminder that there is no future to look forward to, whilst we are still in the grip of this owner.

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  • Dutch

    Do not fall into his trap. I say again a leopard never changes its spots.

    • Toonrobbybobson

      What spots has he changed? He doesnt even hide it.

  • East Durham Mag

    Money he will never see again? TV money, sales from NUFC kit etc, money made on transfers out(big money) and Sh#te Dir#ct free advertising plastered all over SJP. Are you being serious? He is bleeding the club dry and he gets praise….. FFS.

    • ghostrider

      He’s not bleeding the club dry at all. That’s been the same stuff bandied about ever since Keegan spat out his dummy.

      • GlasgowMag

        Ghosty boy still a funny guy deluded but funny😂😂😂

        • East Durham Mag

          LMFAO funny? A lot of better ways to describe whichever one this is.

          • GlasgowMag

            Its easier just to laugh at them a lot less energy involved and it winds them up as it ends the discussion without them getting a reaction👍👍

          • East Durham Mag

            Yeah and thats why i try not to answer the likes of him directly. 👌

          • GlasgowMag

            👌👍👍

        • Leazes.

          No he’s not deluded he’s a troll

      • MichaelMaximusMoose

        Troll

      • Alex

        🛎🔚

        • East Durham Mag

          Of the highest order mate.

      • TheFatController

        Goatrider, Keegan was entitled to be angry. Why would you say he was immature and petulant?

        You sound bitter and twisted about him, or a supporter of Ashley in his employ, or just not very bright?

        Which is it?

        • ghostrider

          I said Keegan spat out his dummy, which he did. I don’t care whether he was right to be angry. All he had to do was get on with the job he took…but the issue went beyond that, because the fairy story for him wasn’t what he expected the cover of the book to portray.
          Basically he was out of his depth, regardless of the constructive dismissal shenanigans.

          As for me being bitter and twisted about him. I’d say I have little time for him because of what he tried to do.
          His past holds well with me but he went right down in my estimation from the Ashley time for what he tried to do to the club…..not Ashley.

          As for being very bright, you can choose whichever suits you. I’m happy to accept anything you decide, even if I may not agree with it.

          Fill your boots, son.

          • TheFatController

            I think you’re confusing me with someone who gives you much thought. Maybe people think about you a lot? That’s good.

            To me, you’re just goatrider and always predictably pro Ashley and never in a way that makes me change my opinion of him one iota.

            So good job, goatrider. I’ll fill my boots yes.

          • ghostrider

            No, I’m not confusing you at all. I have you bang on. You’re bordering on being obsessed but feel free to deny it.

          • TheFatController

            I am obsessed yes. On radar occasions. Mainly I’m not though.

            You’re point again was what sorry?

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back…..

  • 1957

    At most clubs there is a balance between young players (whose value may increase) and older (experienced) players being brought in. Teams who struggle go to one extreme or the other.

    The real answer though is to start producing our own players. Get our academy sorted out with better coaching staff, better scouting and providing the youngsters with belief they could eventually reach the first team something I’m told tipped the balance for Gibson going to Everton

    • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

      I wonder if Gibson is happy at Everton. If there is a club with far too many unwanted players on the books, it’s Everton.

      • TheFatController

        I doubt he’s see a return here as a way out though. He’s made it clear he see some us going nowhere anytime soon.

        Where did he get that idea ?

        • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

          What idea?

          • TheFatController

            That’s this club is going nowhere compared to everton

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            That wasn’t my idea.

            I simply said that Everton have a problem of too many players to pass on.

          • Wezza

            Took you off block to ask you a question man to man.
            Why do you troll here with your brother? Don’t deny it either. Shouldn’t you be trolling Man City?

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            It’s like shopping at Asda, seeing stupid people every so often makes me feel more important.

            My first game this season will be the away at Man city, fancy a pint & you can ask me man to man.

          • Billmag

            Where’s your local watering hole Bobbi.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            The Boundary House, not in Newcastle I’m afraid. Hence the first game I will see will be Man city away.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back….

          • Wezza

            I’m asking you now.
            I’m not going to the Manchester derby.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Errrm, I don’t troll anyone and whilst my brother is an NUFC fan he is not quite as keen and he lives on the other side of the world.

            If I can ask, why are you so stupid to believe some nonsense from fat Jezza and loopy Leazes’? You are aware that they make a few things up.

          • Wezza

            Because your IP address is the same as the other trolls. Thats why.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Right, you honestly believe fat Jezza paid a private detective to investigate and went to the Disqus servers to investigate IP addresses? Jezza couldn’t even afford to pay up a bet to a charity last year.

            I’d happily meet anyone on a matchday. Do you go to any home or away games?

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans (aka customers) Rafa (aka hugely influential employee)!, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back like an evertonian blue nose with a Liverpool red

  • Paul Patterson

    And yet, as of today he’s still in profit this window..

    • Leazes.

      Shameful waste of Benitez…. dreadful treatment, but we have witnessed the treatment of Keegan, Jonas Gutierrez, Shearer, the fans…. and still he gets away with it.

  • foggy

    The FCB by not giving Rafa sufficient funds is forcing the manager to scrape the barrel.
    I doubt if any of these players would have been Rafa’s first choice ( exception being Kenedy).
    Ashley couldn’t give two f’s for the club, the manager, the team or the fans, all he is bothered about is how best to screw the fans over whilst laughing all the way to the bank.

    • Your mum

      the club lost 40m in 2017, i’d imagine a lot of the sky money etc has gone a long way to balance the books, the wage bill for they championship season was 112m and we only turned over 85m, that’s a big hit to take for a lot of clubs.

      • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

        The cash loss was £24m which still needs covering. I think only £10m was absorbed in the 2018 by this.

        • TheFatController

          See, we are always paying for Ashley’s relegations.

          Never him. Always us.

          No wonder fans hate him…

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            There is one thing you can’t get Ashley for is him taking it on the chin. The £10m is the overdraft, I suspect that is repaid but he’s not taken his loans back.

          • TheFatController

            So he gets that back when he (ever) sells?

            So if we get relegated, either the fans pay or the new owner, never him.

            If we stay up, he makes money on the sale.

            How is that him taking losses on the chin?

          • Billmag

            You won’t get a reply on that Bobbi is very selective.

          • TheFatController

            I admire his fake news approach, but it’s so poor it’s laughable.

            He’s more Bobbi davro therefore…

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Yes, he only gets his money back if he sells. He also only gets his money back if he sells for more than he’s put in. Currently, the only price he’s been offered is £250m which is less than he put in.

            When we got relegated, his company put in another £15m, he’s not taken that out. So far, he’s taken the loss on the chin, it will only be recovered if he decides to take repayment out of future profits or he sells the business.

          • TheFatController

            Yes, but he creates the losses then expects to be thanked for cleaning it all up – whilst being owed for it though.

            I don’t spill coffee, then clean it up and expect thanks from people for clearing it up as if i didn’t have to…

          • morryJR

            so should we all join hands and sing ” for he’s a jolly good fellow”?

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans (aka customers) Rafa (aka hugely influential employee)!, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back like a lioness defending her cubs

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            He over-prices the club?

            As far as I know, the only indication of price is that he declined the offer of £250m. I suspect most would value the club higher than that.

          • Your mum

            41.3 million loss after tax up to june 2017

          • TheFatController

            He hasn’t paid for that, we will.

      • Sickandtired

        A big hit to take? Well fatty didn’t take it did he – he repaid himself £18 million!

        • Your mum

          Would you not wan’t money owed to you paying back? I know i claim expenses from my company each month.

          • Sickandtired

            Give over. If you run your company like this fat [email protected] runs his, then you can go take your head for a shyte.
            Mike Ashley seems to think that NUFC should and will never make a loss for him – hence his ‘loans’ are always going to be fully repayable on a sale.
            That’s not a business. That’s a no loss charity.

          • Sickandtired

            Not sure what happened to my reply , so I’ll post again.
            Firstly, when your business is facing a big ‘loss’ why would you decide at that point to repay yourself personally – by adding more debt to the business? He rewards himself for his own failures!
            If you operate like him then I have zero time for anything you say.

        • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

          He repaid £18m and introduced £33m – £15m more.

      • Wezza

        Rubbish. There is no possible way that wage bill was 112M. Not even if you put all those season newcomers on 100k per week EACH! 100k by the way is a wage we have not been close too for years.

        You can choose to believe people under investigation and a proven court liar (as well as all MA’s unethical business practices)
        OR
        You can use common sense and question that wage bill to begin with.

        • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

          Wezza, the wage bill in the accounts was £112m. This included a provision of £20m which was essentially bringing forward the wage costs from future years. So the cash wage bill was £92m.

          This was still up on the previous year which was £75m. It’s noted that bonus payments of £10m were made for promotion and we had Rafa and his team for a full year, they cost £10m as opposed to McCaren & co costing £1.2m.

          You can see how the money increases?

      • foggy

        If we had an ambitious owner do you think we would have been relegated — twice!

      • panther

        and whos fault was the championship season?, same as the previous one

  • Shipcote Willy

    Ashley may be making changes but it is based on minimum spend and he continues making money from NUFC and using it for SD whichever way you look at his transfer policy. He has thrown Rafa a few crumbs from his table. Loans, freebies and selling players means he will likely have a net transfer surplus. The money the club generates will never been seen by Rafa. We are once again hoping to survive while running down the infrastructure of the club and that suits Ashley fine. He wants to keep Rafa because he knows that with his usual puppet manager appointments we would be down. No future under Miser Mike

    • Leazes.

      Yes and we haven’t even touched the Sky money or the Season Ticket money or the Sissoko payment or the new sponsorship money…. even taking out the wages in advance of the season there has to be a substantial amount of money somewhere.

      • MadMag83

        It’s been used to pay fat Mike’s tab at Gregg’s.

      • S.G.M.

        Probably in the club owners pocket.

        • Your mum

          not possible.

      • Brian Standen

        Another point I agree on. We asked the same question when Supetmac was sold! Where did that money go?
        A drop in the ocean compared to today.
        Where is the money going, we are miles up on transfer money!
        TV money which amounts to millions!

  • morryJR

    …and of course this more ” reasonable” approach from Ashley has nothing to do with the recent activity from the fans joining together to fight back ….being photographed with huge anti -Ashley banners around the town this weekend…. disrupting online sales at S.D….and looking for other sellers to buy the new kits. Keep going everybody…the changes are small from Ashley…but the fight back appears to be working!

    • Your mum

      the buying of older players started long before the banners were made,

      • TheFatController

        Still, don’t let that stop anyone from messing with SD anytime they can.

  • Leazes.

    Ha…. you are the same author as Graham Porter and Jackie Smithfield…. you’ve inserted that same literary device that the full time writer uses. (I’ll keep it secret)

    I’m sorry but the signings are average mate and the reason that there is a departure from buy to sell policy is because when you are getting players for those figures at those prices then it sort of guarantee low or no profit….

    …. so it doesn’t matter too much…. its not a recipe for success, and as there’s a distinct possibility of the Coach leaving in 10 months then there’s a reason for players being bought over his head, and yes he’ll welcome them for the press and smile, but that’s the position he’s in Simon! Rafa was at home in the Wirral when Ki came in…. he wasn’t here to welcome him!

    I agree with the sentiment of the article but don’t give Ashley a pat on the back for changing a rigid policy when its only a device to see out Rafa contract.

    • Paul Patterson

      Shorter term measures for longer term failure and not for the first time . .

    • Brian Standen

      I have to on this occasion agree

      • Leazes.

        Well done!

        • Brian Standen

          I might have strong opinions but always respect others including yours, of course if I disagree I will say so, but i am honest enough to admit if I concur with what someone says!
          Problem i have always had with you is sometimes you go over the top with people! However your not alone in doing that!
          Basically we all want the same for NUFC anyway

          • Sickandtired

            There are clearly some posters on here – probably the same ones using multiple names – who don’t want the same thing, Brian. They defend Ashley no matter what he does, and that can and never will result in wanting the best for NUFC.

  • GToon

    Wait until the last minute 30m offer for laschelles arrives and then see what happens. See how quickly “the line” can be got over then.

    • Paul Patterson

      If that happens, there will be uproar . .

      • S.G.M.

        “Uproar?” From who? the 52000 who will be there at the Spurs game, come rain or shine, come Lascelles or not.

      • GToon

        Unfortunately Paul I don’t think there will be. There will be a lot of people who think it’s a good deal. We need to remember that we are currently in Ashley’s favourite time of year where he can make a profit from player sales. He likes to implement his model of buying young, developing and then selling for a profit regardless of what the manager thinks or the impact on the club.

  • Your mum

    Ashley is only interested in keeping the club in the PL to maintain its resale value, he knows his time is coming to an end and he won’t allow the club to go into debt or risk being relegated so it is essentially just on tick over until a buyer is found. Financially the club is in a good place, it’s just about finding a buyer now which I believe will happen this season, probably before Christmas.

    • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

      I think you are right. It’s very much set up so a buyer can come in and Not have to throw their own money into the pot.

      A couple of things to note. I almost guarantee we will be paying interest on our borrowing when this happens and I’d guess 50% of that borrowing will be external.

      • TheFatController

        How can you guarantee ?

        How could you know who or what the possible future buyer is likely to do re finance ?

        Where do you get 50% from?

        Are you using made up bull to help you make an emphatic argument? Are you Donald trump?

        • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

          I said “I almost guarantee”, of course I don’t know for sure.

          The interested party that most of us think will be coming back in is unlikely to be representing a single rich altruistic spender, most likely to be a group who are looking for a high growth vehicle.

          If I were managing such an investment (and no, I’m not clever enough to earn that sort of money), I’d acquire the shares and debt and immediately refinance the debt as far as I could. I say 50% because the scope for immediate borrowing would be secured on the stadium building or training ground land. As it is, there is limitations on borrowing because the land is not owned by the club.

          • TheFatController

            They’d borrow against guaranteed tv money, with assets as security.

            The glaziers did that. Took man united fans a long while to realise it doesn’t jeopardise the finances, it just allows investment to keep you playing in competition at the required turnover level to control debts

            The Glaziers now know picking a good manager is more of the trick, something Ashley jeopardises now Rafa intends to leave

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Indeed, like any business, they can borrow against future income. It’s obviously risky for a club like NUFC where we’re not as big a brand and we have more chance of losing that income.

          • TheFatController

            No it’s not risky because we don’t go to the level of debt Man Utd do.

            Why’s are you saying we’re a smaller brand so it doesn’t apply, when it does apply just on a different scale?

            You make no business or financial sense whatsoever there.

            We’re similar in size to spurs and they aren’t in risk of going down. Simply because they make good football business decisions and we don’t.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Any borrowing against future income has an element of risk.

            In our case, we’d be borrowing which commits to costs that run beyond the guaranteed income stream. The Man yoo brand is relevant as they are not just borrowing against EPL tv streams but their commercial activities have far more scope due to the brand’s growth post Munich.

            I don’t think many neutrals would agree with your Spurs comparison.

          • TheFatController

            I think many neutrals would agree that ten years ago we had the same potential as Spurs.

            Will you stop saying you speak on behalf of a mass of people, who all think like you do. It’s childish because obviously everyone reading it disagrees with you because they’re toon fans and see us as the same potential as Spurs.

            You’ve failed to know your audience. Who cares on here what neutrals think, but I take it by that you’re neutral and not a fan in the same way the rest of us are ?

            Does my barrister-like ability to highlight the lack of logic and fact in your arguments make you look like an idiot on here? I think so.

          • Megatron1505

            Just block him mate, this is his regular borefest of claiming to speak for a large group and stating emphatic arguments which don’t hold up to any scrutiny.

            He just a bull💩 merchant troll.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Really? I think we’ve been a smaller club than Spurs through most of our history.

            I’m not sure where I claim to speak for a mass of people except to say that non NUFC fans would see Spurs as being a bigger club.

            As for not knowing my audience, why would I care? I try and see things pragmatically rather than swayed by emotions. Of course, I’d love for some oil tycoon to come along as bankroll a Keeganesque team but I know reality is, if it were my money, I’d do things more in a Mike Ashley style.

          • Billmag

            If you haven’t got emotions Bobbi you ain’t no NUFC supporter.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            I’m extremely emotion at the match but the business side has to be emotion free.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back magnificently

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            The terrible owner thing is subjective, sure, I’d love to see us buy more players, not buy duds etc but that’s what Rafa is there for.

            Rafa hasn’t said he’s miserable. I asked people on here at the start of the window, who was needed to bring in.

            Most said Kenendy, Dubravka & a striker. I was greedy, I thought a right back was required too.

            By the end of this week, we’ll have the 3 as well as an extra forward, midfielder and defender. Why get miserable?

          • TheFatController

            What Ashley style is that? Expensive debt increasing relegations, miserable fans and managers (if they’re a good manager), public ridicule and no one wanting to buy the club?

            That style ?

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            The public ridicule is bought on by the pitchfork & bedsheet brigade.

            If I were not emotionally involved and owned a club, I’d have it paying it’s way and trying to develop players with resale value whilst keeping EPL status.

          • Billmag

            Bobbi developing player’s that probably means a state of the art academy something fatty promised a few year ago.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back quite strongly

      • Your mum

        Agreed, we also have to be careful what we wish for. Yes, we wan’t ashley out and we want to dream again, but we don’t want it to be at the risk of the club going under, just look at blackburn, Leeds, Portsmouth, Villa. All had dreams, but were run poorly.

        • MadMag83

          I’d call not investing properly in the club a big risk. What happens if Newcastle get relegated, Rafa goes, players like Lascelles are then sold to balance the books. The way the club is at the moment, we’re only ever one season away from disaster.

          • Your mum

            Are we though? both times we have gone down, we have bounced back comfortably. I would also say that we have managed to get rid of deadwood whilst being down in the EFL and the players willing to fight are the ones that stay. Whilst we may have had an average squad last year, we had a team rather than a few imports wanting to make a name for themselves.

          • Sickandtired

            Are we though? Where the F have you been for the previous 11 years? Two relegation’s, three near misses.
            The club lost out not only on PL revenue – each time that excuse being given for a non spend once promoted – but we’ve also had to pay back the fat cretin for ‘loaning’ some money as a result of his idiotic ownership.
            The club has more debt now, owed to his companies, than when he bought us. Idiots like you keep suggesting he’s done us a marvelous favour.

          • Ben Jones

            So you want the club to be strictly ran on its own budget ensuring that no extra debt is added, sir you’re a man after my own heart. I agree fully

          • Sickandtired

            F Off, Troll.

          • Ben Jones

            Sorry I thought that’s what you were saying, how much more debt would you like added then?

          • TheFatController

            Well, you could borrow against future earnings, increasing the debt but guaranteeing the income to pay it off.

            If you go down, you sell the players to clear debt, but this way it’s less likely you’ll go down, which surely is the number one business objective ?

            As an example, check out the other 19 PL clubs’ strategies …

          • Your mum

            Yes you could, but it lowers the value of the club, or debt looks bad when you are trying to sell the club. If he wanted to be a complete [email protected] then he could take out loans and repay himself fully and then just leave charnley etc to run it, but he hasn’t, which makes me think he is wanting to sell up.

          • TheFatController

            Well, he’s created the debt by the mistakes he admitted to that have sent us backwards whilst most clubs have gone forwards.

            WHy would he not be thinking of selling therefore ? It’s the wrk of an awful businessman by anyone’s standards .

            Look at Spurs as a comparison to us over the past decade.

          • Your mum

            Spurs are run very well, and i would love to be in their position. At least he has acknowledged his mistakes and tried to correct them within a financial structure. It could be much worse, look at the mackems.

          • TheFatController

            Explain ‘learning from mistakes’ against the current poor spend and Rafa’s departure in 9 months’ time?

          • Robert Petch

            I have no time for Ashley whatsoever but I have asked myself if he is trying to take the difference between his asking price and the highest offer he has had out and sell up

          • Ben Jones

            Right. So Newcastle just isn’t in enough debt for you?

          • TheFatController

            We’re not in debt, Mike Ashley is.

            I’m talking about how the original debt of £70m was manageable, and how new owners could finance spending against future guaranteed revenue from PL tv rights or selling players if we don’t finish ahead of Brighton, Huddersfield, Cardiff etc

            Where did I talk about adding to the debt created by Mike Ashley that he owns?

            Or do you not realise he owns the debt? So the fans shouldn’t pay for it, he should. If he can find a buyer to pay it off for him, great. But I’m not oaying money into the club and having it clear debts he created and owns.

            Or do you think I should ?

          • Ben Jones

            You have a simple idea that more debt = better players = higher league position = higher income = money to pay off the more debt.

            What if it doesn’t = better players? , what if it doesn’t = higher league position? , what if it doesn’t = higher income? , what if we can’t pay off the more debt? .

            At least you’ve answered the question that a lot of people in here seem to ask. How can [enter ‘lesser’ clubs here] afford to spend [enter an amount of money here] on players and we can’t? They’re getting into debt and we ain’t

          • Billmag

            =relegation then the whole Ashley cycle starts again, and if we don’t get promoted at the first time of asking would your hero subsidize further promotion attempts I very much doubt it.

          • Ben Jones

            Billmag wants NUFC to get into more debt. Understood

          • Billmag

            Yes if it means staying in the premiership and progressing, your argument is flawed did we not get into debt through getting relegated, let’s go back we finished 5th then we bought 1 player Anita for 5ml and very nearly got relegated the season after it wasn’t till fatty nearly 💩 himself that he stumped up the money in January to just about save us. Two relegations and 3 near misses proves your hero’s plan’s of how to run a football club is shot to bits.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back.

          • TheFatController

            No one wants that, don’t be silly.

            It’s why we hate Ashley, he keeps creating more debt with his mistakes and it’s damaging the club.

            So don’t be silly, Ashley adds to our debt and it’s got to be stopped.

          • TheFatController

            I’ve said elsewhere, if you get relegated you sell the players.

            But by buying good players, you are more likely to avoid relegation – Bournemouth followthis practice and flourish.

            They’re not in debt, because the money is guaranteed at season end. Do you not understand that? I thought it was simple, it’s how Bournemouth Leicester etchabet got into debt since promotion. Not Watford, Huddersfield, Brighton, Burnley, Palace since their promotions.

            Given so many clubs have done it without getting into debt problems, I’m surprised you’re not aware they can do it?

          • Billmag

            It’s like nutting your head against a brick wall, profit over fialure that’s fatty’s motto.

          • Your mum

            The club would have gone under if he had not put in over £100m when he bought it. Would you prefer that?

          • TheFatController

            Would we say over £100m…,?

            The debt was secured against assets and the PL tv rights were about to take a major leap.

            Why would you worry about a LT debt half your imminent annual turnover ? Why would the banks call in on a regular top 10 PL club with £70m debt and loads of happy customers with money?

            You make absolutely no sense and lie about the money put in at the start…

          • Sickandtired

            No, the Club would not have. It’s just part of the Ashley propaganda which keeps being regurgitated by his defenders.
            The mortgage for the ground was forecast/planned to be fully repaid by 2016 – and that was before the silly TV revenues we now enjoy.
            Instead, the club now owes Ashley £144 million and counting, get nowt for advertising and have lost all merchandising.
            Brain cells of a rocking horse, you lot.

          • Billmag

            Rubbish and FS was quoted that before he passed away.

          • panther

            lies

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans (aka customers) Rafa (aka hugely influential employee)!, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back like whirling screaming powerful dervishes

          • Billmag

            Good grief you sound like fatty he was quoted when we went down last time we’ve done it before so we will do it again, is that the right attitude to run a club and it won’t be as easy next time that’s for sure.

          • Your mum

            No, it’s not and as i said above he is just keeping the club ticking over in the PL until it is sold. Hence the change in policy. I had dinner with a NUFC director years ago and was told back in 2012 that the club only had ambition to be mid table back then, i doubt anything has changed.

          • TheFatController

            But all the positives you mention are down to Rafa (and previously hughton) and not Ashley.

            They clean up Ashley’s mess. Then he betrays them.

            Which is nice.

          • MadMag83

            Personally, yes I think we are only a season away from disaster. The first of those promotions was achieved with a very talented squad, we cut the deadwood, discovered a diamond in Carroll, and unearthed an under rated manager in Hughton.

            Under Rafa we went down with a much poorer squad, but we were able to bring in Gayle and Ritchie from Premier League clubs, using money generated from selling Wijnaldum, Sissoko, Townsend, etc.

            If we’re in the Championship next season, can you see Ashley sanctioning those sorts of signings when he won’t even give Rafa funds in the Premier League? We’ll end up with an Ashley crony in charge, any player worth a bob sold off to cover “losses”.

            There’s only so many times you can bounce back. Kinda like how there are so many times you can flirt with relegation before you end up going down.

          • Desree

            Then we would end up like Blackburn

        • TheFatController

          True, but plenty more clubs are run well. Why fear losing one of the few bad owners when most can take Brighton Huddersfield Burnley Leicester Southampton Bournemouth etc to dozzying heights .

          Not wanting rid of one abuser for fear of getting another is never a good idea, plus it allows people to defend the original abuser.

          As you are doing.

        • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

          Whilst I don’t see new owners doing a Leeds. I agree with the sentiment of being careful what we wish for.

          I suspect the new owners will increase the costs to the club, not just player wages but executive level salaries and borrowing costs. As it stands, the risk is all with Mike Ashley, that may be uncomfortable for some fans but it ensures he does not do anything too silly. When new owners pass the risk to banks, we may see more ‘fun’ in terms of money splashing about but we could also be at more risk.

          • TheFatController

            They can’t do a Leeds. Leeds paid for champions league qualification using the likely money it would bring.

            WHen they didn’t qualify they had a fire sale they’ve never recovered but from

            With FFP no one could do that. Now, clubs spend the guaranteed tv money in advance – that is not the risk Leeds took.

          • Dont stop bobbi fleckman

            Premier league FFP only prevents wages from being too high against EPL income and sustained losses. It is still possible to do a Leeds but far more likely is to do a Villa or Sunderland.

          • TheFatController

            Yes, but their owners were as bad as Ashley.

            And most owners look at Sunderland and villa and work out how to avoid it.

            Like any new owners we get would.

            It’s not rocket science. Don’t judge future owners by Ashley’s ‘never learn’ standards.

            Not everyone is s stubborn sociopathic moron obsessed with a quick buck and thus capable of making mistake after mistake after mistake due to their personality disorder

        • Sickandtired

          Oh my f’kin God. Not that old line once again.

        • Desree

          If any of those clubs were receiving 120m a season in TV money they wouldn’t be in trouble.

          And those poorly run clubs have all won something in my lifetime. NUFC on the other hand?

          Another Keith Bishop employ identified

        • FatParosite

          Busy Bishop Bee

      • TheFatController

        Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

        There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back………..

    • FatParosite

      You talk $hit.

  • TheFatController

    Yes, the club is now run not to ‘luck’ money from Young improved players from abroad, or with low release clauses, but to stay up for the next year.

    So a one year plan. That’s why Rafa is leaving, no MT plan.

    As Ashley said last year, football moves very quickly so planning is difficult, so he’s given up clearly. But good clubs plan by developing the infrastructure for improving players at all levels of the clubs, and attracting better ones for those levels.

    He’s basically given up on any ‘best practice’ followed by successful clubs and just wants to stay up. But each year that’ll become more difficult simply because thirty clubs will have better plans than us, so we’ll end up mid table championship in two or three years.

    • Paul Patterson

      Trouble is, he wants the best of both worlds. He wants to spend nowt or as little as possible, reap maximum rewards, cut costs, stifle ambition, not progress the club and not sell the club as he makes too much from it to do so. Either way we’re stuck unless a silly offer comes in . .

      • TheFatController

        Well, he has one expenditure. – currently he spends more on his manager than most other clubs, but he’s the only owner in football unaware that good managers have ambitions in the game as well as for their bank balance.

        He’s waiting for Rafa to sign on the promise of £100m over 3 years. That shows how little he understands people who are not exactly like him. He can’t empathise with others that think or are motivated differently.

        • MadMag83

          Well put.

        • FatParosite

          Classic sociopath. If he wasn’t putting that trait to building his empire he would be raping and murdering women.

          • TheFatController

            But harsh, he’s certainly a man who bears grudges that motivate him through his life.

            But he also shows signs of being a little ‘unaware of his surroundings’ – like when he did the security check at SD and pulled out a huge wad of notes, having no idea of the crassness or the bad PR of it – or just not caring that he would be seen as an oaf.

            You’d go on holiday with him and he’d use your towel to wipe his feet on as he came in. That type.

          • panther

            only way hed get anything

  • Ba ba.

    It’s more than likely charnley he’s a total clown… Fat boy is probably unconscious on a beach not having a clue what’s ganning on as long as the tv money and free advertising is rolling in… Bless him.. Fatcnt.

  • MadMag83

    Ki = Free
    Dubravka = A steal at £4m and not old for a GK.
    Yoshi = Far East marketing.
    Schar = Bargain buy from a relegated club.
    Kenedy = Loan.

    Hardly a change for the better from Ashley. If anything it shows that rather than spend money on potential, he can spend next to nothing instead! Don’t be fooled into thinking he’s doing it for any benefit other than to line his own pockets.

    • Paul Patterson

      Mitro- £22-27m
      Merino- £10m
      Mbemba- £8m
      Sels- £4m
      Colback, Haidara etc off the wage bill.

      Profits galore . .

      • Alreet

        Yep all in the pocket of ash not MASH

        • MadMag83

          Are they not the same? Shows what a fat gypsy he is that he names a company after himself, M.ASHley, what a tosspot.

      • Wezza

        Yep and the wage bill has never been lower either!

  • TheFatController

    Trollwatch-

    – we’ve had the age old defence that we might get a bad owner and do a Leeds Portsmouth villa – like you wouldn’t want rid of an abuser because you might get a worse one? That’s logical – ‘thanks for abusing our club Mike, but not abusing it like Peter Ridsdale did Leeds’ (who at least had ambition)

    – we’ve had the finances defended, ‘we don’t have any money, so get real ‘ – well, surely that’s all the more reason to want Ashley out, given he gets us relegated, loses the club money and refuses to put his own money in to cover losses unless he’ll get it back.
    -So he makes money if we stay up, we lose it if he gets us relegated? Good deal

    • MadMag83

      I hate him so much I’d rather we went bust just to put the fat get out of pocket and get rid of him.

      • Ben Jones

        Another ‘fan’ who wants the club to fail. Oh we’re so lucky to have you ain’t we?

        • Roblee07

          The club is dead man!! Can’t you tell. We are not a sporting institution. He is a cancer. The city the club the fans will still be here when he is gone. For me staying in the premier league just to make him money for ten more years is far worse than double relegation and getting rid. If that makes me a bad fan I have to ask what are you a fan of?

          • Ben Jones

            Actively wanting the club to tank and you’re calling yourself a fan. EXPOSED

  • Alreet

    Keep us in the prem at as minimum spend as possible. Thats been the plan from day one.

    All these has been pundits and commentators claiming spends of 60 milll here and there in the odd window are up the chuff off the pie eater.

    Im happy that we are all in agreement with this being his plan and that none of us actually agree with it.

    I think we will just survive again this season with the odd bit of luck from the woodwork and a deflection. After that is anyones guess.

    When he rolls the dice he always uses our high stakes as a float.

    Lets see the next stop on the toon express

  • FatParosite

    Another article that before you get to the end of it has fatal arguments at it’s core.

  • Peaky

    🐷🐷🐷 OUT OUT OUT
    🤓🤓🤓 OUT OUT OUT

  • Desree

    The strategy has changed because they are the only players that fit in the budget or are free and Rafa at least has a chance of getting a performance.

    This is another Keith Bishop article, the new strategy, ‘let’s pretend we are a fan, we will slate Mike, just to show we are a real fan, then clutch at straws about some positive’

    It is clear to me that this site is being used as a Mike Ashley mouth piece.

    • TheFatController

      Yes – their reverse psychology use of ‘hey my fellow monkey hanger Geordie mags I hate him as much as the next Marra…’ is no better than a child, that’s why I can’t believe it’s a professional PR set up.

      They’d actually be very clever with it. This is amateur all the time.

  • mactoon

    All I am reading today is that we are SELLING Mitrovic for £22 million and taking Rondon on LOAN with Gayle going the other way. I just can’t see any positives in that. One in and two out… oh wait, profit. Silly me!

    • Brian Standen

      Mitrovic and Gayle have up to now not done anything special at prem level neither has Rondon you could argue
      Quite simply Rafa fancies him and not Mitrovic, that should be enough

      • HarryHype59

        Fair points, but with all the money sloshing about in this club, why don’t we sanction the acquisition of a striker who could do something special in the EPL?

        • Brian Standen

          Unfortunately under you know who we are restricted – Top manager working with plastic tools!
          I’m not saying spend £100 million but we should be looking at forwars in the £40 million bracket!
          That said if we were to get Rondon ( who I think is decent) and let’s say someone like Ings or Welbeck who surely both can’t command fees in excess of £20 – £25 million then I would be quite happy!
          The injury to Lejuene however is massively bad

        • mactoon

          Because Ashley won’t release the necessary funds.

      • mactoon

        I’m more referring to the numbers than the actual players. I agree Gayle, Mitro (and Joselu) should be moved on but by just signing Rondon on loan we are actually making the first team weaker. We need to go out and get two strikers to replace those going out.

        • Brian Standen

          I agree, although Mutu could be a surprise package – time will tell

          • mactoon

            From the clips I’ve seen Muto looks pacy and could do well playing off Rondon which would fit in with Rafa’s preferred one up front.

  • SuperDesHamilton

    Whoever is cheap is Ashley’s choice of player regardless of age

  • TheFatController

    On a broader point, why do apologists try the distraction tactic of saying we, as fans, are in debt with the club? And should be grateful to Ashley therefore?

    He owns the club and the debt. He also created whatever the debt is now (£130m?) less the manageable debt we had before (£70m) – where it is laughable to think we might have gone under (aka done a Portsmouth) when we make £170m a year now.

    Why are we the ones in debt, and grateful to him for covering it?

    He makes loads of money at his (he owns it) club out of us and the PL status Hughton and Rafa have secured us when he’s messed up. Yet he can’t get on with the fans, Hughton or Rafa? And then all of a sudden it’s our debt as fans? Talk about a lack of accountability.

    • Ben Jones

      No one said the fans were in debt with the club. What an obsurd thing to say. I’m sure you’ll be able to quote these fans who are allegedly saying this

      • TheFatController

        Oh? That’s great then.

        So we’re all agreed the debt is Ashley’s, mainly created by him, and so when he says he won’t put any money in also, he’s basically ruining the club?

        Nothing absurd about that, I think we can all agree, unless you’re biased to this truth as an Ashley apologist of course ?

        • Ben Jones

          What so all of your initial post was just a ruse to make someone say ‘it didn’t happen’ so you could post the obvious that everyone already knew? Behave!. He owns the club 100% the debt is the clubs debt, it could also be said it’s his debt, but I think that’s your biggest problem, you’re unable to separate club from owner

          • TheFatController

            The club is also a business, with a 100% single owner. How can you thus legally separate the club debt from the owner’s debt?

            tell me how you can separate club and owner from a legal, debt liability perspective ?

            You do Ashley no favours when you set me up to state here on the World Wide Web how Ashley is a huge problem.

            And you state the excuses, allowing me to easily expose them as exactly that. And people then read the truth and that helps motivate them to make change.

            So my question really is ‘why do you allow people to put truth and facts on here that refute the Ashley regime falsehoods for what they are?’ That damages him obviously?

          • Ben Jones

            What are you going on about? It would please me no end of he borrowed the 130m or whatever debt from the bank @8% and paid himself back and started paying the circa 2m a year market rate for the advertising to shut you all up. Club would be in a worse financial position but at least it would stop some of your whining .

            #everythingthemostcostlyandleastefficientway

          • TheFatController

            Your point merely makes the real overriding point that he’s not a smart football businessman and should sell the club to someone with good football business sense.

            Ellis Short accepted he was useles and let his club go free of charge. Ashley might have to do the same one day.

          • Ben Jones

            Oh? How come? How does my point make that?

          • TheFatController

            Because you know, I know, the world Knows the debt has gone up and the club backwards under Ashley.

            Because that’s the truth, no point you make can change the truth. That’s what the truth is, something that can’t be altered no matter how much you try to change it with your posts

          • Ben Jones

            More income than ever before

            Best manager we’ve had in a long time

            More financially secure than we’ve ever been

            Premier league football

            Sell out crowds

            Signings still to come…

            A lot of people are excited for the new season . Sorry

          • TheFatController

            The manager is leaving.

            The debt is huge and growing.

            PL clubs are spending more and better run

            The crowds are now a collective trying to remove the owner and threatening to boycott

            Signings are all cheap replacements

            Sorry is the right word. For the state of the club.

          • TheFatController

            I’ve copied this and will post it daily. So thanks, you do Ashley down again

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whisky he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans, Rafa, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back.

          • Ben Jones

            Grrrr. The debts huge and growing [angryface] why won’t he get us into more debt? [angryface]

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans (aka customers) Rafa (aka hugely influential employee)!, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back effectively

          • Chuck D

            Every penny the club generates

          • Billmag

            I’m sorry but he’s created the debt through his miss management,his record as an owner is abysmal and you know it.

          • Ben Jones

            So extra debt always = mismanagement?

          • TheFatController

            In the club’s case?

            Yes.

            Extra debt is only good if it’s used to invest wisely. We haven’t.

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            ‘Extra’ debt is also good if used to avoid insolvency. Not paying back debt yet to avoid having a lack of operating funds is also good.

          • mactoon

            He didn’t create the club’s debt. He inherited it from Shepherd and Hall and covered it by giving the club interest free loans

          • Billmag

            He’s created more debt than he inherited Numpty.

          • mactoon

            Let’s not reduce to name calling.

            The club’s debt when he bought it was £100 million. You are now saying we have more than £200 million debt? I don’t think that is accurate. He has however, added to the inherited debt by mismanagement I agree with that.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans (aka customers) Rafa (aka hugely influential employee)!, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back like Mohamed Ali in that rumble in the jungle doing rope a dope

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            The total debt at time of purchase was £76.6M. The next year it was £245.2M and the total amount of debt peaked at £282.5M in 2009-10. It was back as low as £129M by 2013-14 but has since increased to the current £144M.

            Although his management has many, many flaws, placing any of the loans against him is a bit unfair as the large increase one year into ownership is clearly a response for how he found the books when he bought the club. Also, the amount of debt is actually a smaller ratio now versus the overall value of the club (even if that value is below his current asking price).

          • mactoon

            I must admit to never having seen your quoted figures of £245 and £282 million.

            Ashley back in 2007 “I paid £140m for the club with the expectation that there was a debt of £70m. Actually it was around £100m so there was suddenly an extra £30m to find”

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            The numbers are in the reports on file at Companies House. For the year MA bought the club, the bank debt was £76.6. There was no other debt.

            The next year had the bank balance drop to £7.2M, MA personally loaned the £100M you referenced, and St James Holding (SJH) loaned the club £138M. Total = £245.2M.

            As of 2009-10, the bank balance had risen and then fallen again to £10.6M, MA’s loan was £139.8M, and the SJH loan was £132.1M. Total = £282.5M.

            The balances move here and there each year but in 2012-13, the SJH balance had £100M repaid. The total debt = £165.6M. By the next year both the bank and SJH balances were £0. The only debt was MA’s personal loan with a balance of £129M. This happens to be when the club started to invest in transfers but then was relegated. In 2016-17 (the most recent books made public), MA’s loan dropped to £111M but SJH provided £33M for a debt total of £144M.

            This does not seem to include some other debts that were carried elsewhere in the books. Companies House shows that 11 old mortgages, etc. were retired all at once in March. All 11 notes were pretty old with two that were likely the most substantial (they mortgaged all of the club’s land and buildings) dating back to the prior owners.

          • Clarko

            Can you provide a quote/link/somewhere specific that states that SJH loaned the club £138m totalling Newcastle’s debt at £245.2m?

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            This is going back a few years so I’m not sure I’m looking in all the best places for references on demand but if you go to the SJH page inside Companies House, navigate to page two of the list of documents and go into the annual report for 2009 (for year ending 2008), on page 21 in section 13 it states… “The group loans totaling £238M (Company: £138M) from Mr. MJW Ashley are unsecured.”

            You can also go on Swiss Ramble’s website for a second opinion. He has reports for NUFC in about 2010 that show similar numbers to my tracking.

          • Clarko

            St James Holdings is not Newcastle United Limited. Newcastle United were never in £238m worth of debt. I’ve checked Swiss Ramble and the highest Newcastle’s gross debt has been is £150.4m (£139.8m from Ashley and £10.6m in external debt) in 2010 (article: Newcastle United – What A Waste).

            The numbers you are quoting are Ashley’s loan to St James Holdings (I would assume money to buy the club), not Ashley’s loan to Newcastle United Limited and not a loan from St James Holdings to Newcastle United Limited.

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            Try Swiss Ramble’s article “Newcastle United’s Finances in Black and White”

          • Clarko

            ‘In spite of this, the club’s previous excesses have resulted in significant debt of £282 million, though only £150 million is held in the books of the football club with the remaining £132 million held in the holding company. The vast majority of this debt represents loans from Mike Ashley of £243 million, but there is also a bank overdraft of £36 million, which is a significant increase on the prior year balance of £1 million. Since the 2009 year-end, Ashley advanced a further £25.5 million to keep the club ticking over in the Championship, so his total investment in the club now stands at £268 million, represented by £132 million to buy the club, £70 million to repay loans and £66 million working capital.’

            The “debt” includes the ‘£132 million to buy the club’ right?

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            “In spite of this, the club’s previous excesses have resulted in significant debt of £282 million, though only £150 million is held in the books of the football club with the remaining £132 million held in the holding company. The vast majority of this debt represents loans from Mike Ashley of £243 million, but there is also a bank overdraft of £36 million, which is a significant increase on the prior year balance of £1 million. Since the 2009 year-end, Ashley advanced a further £25.5 million to keep the club ticking over in the Championship, so his total investment in the club now stands at £268 million, represented by £132 million to buy the club, £70 million to repay loans and £66 million working capital.” – S.R., 2010

          • Clarko

            Meaning the “debt” includes the ‘£132 million to buy the club’ right?

          • Come&TakeIt1836

            With a purchase price of £132M, it seems odd that SJH would note a ‘loan’ of a different amount (£138M) if this was attributable to the purchase. I did not originally include in the annual report quote snippet but it continues that the £138M was subject to interest charges (which were not taken). Also, the £238M was noted as being expected to be repaid within 1-2 years at the time and the SJH amount was brought to zero in 2013-14. I don’t think SR would use ‘debt’ and ‘investment’ seamlessly and interchangeably throughout his web report (but I cannot be sure). The £132M SR references in the quote was £138M two years prior to the time of that writing and a different amount the year before. These things together lead me to believe that the £238M wasn’t likely including the purchase price.

            I agree it is not definitive and ultimately it is not that major of a point to me… meaning I’m telling you why I think the way I do and am not wanting to come across arguing the point. Directionally, MA has put a lot money into his investment. I think his motivations were primarily selfish because he likely put in the minimum to protect his investment. Maybe he put in all he could that was liquid… I don’t know.

            I think we would agree that the books are purposely ‘opaque’. Money is moved and held between SJH and NUFC as allowed by accounting and tax law and best meets their needs. I think MA bought a club that essentially had a negative present value at the time of the transaction. He paid for it once by paying the previous owners and then essentially a second time to get his investment solvent.

          • Clarko

            The £238m absolutley includes the price, Newcastle have not loaned £238m from SJH or Mike Ashley.

            It clearly states in the source you provided that the initial £282m worth of debt included £150m of debt on our books (the same £150.4m I quoted made up of £139.8m from Ashley and £10.6m in external debt) and £132m on SJH books (Ashley’s loan to SJH that allowed him to buy the club).

            You’re absolutley wrong and have been spreading misinformation stating that ‘debt peaked at £282.5M in 2009-10’. That’s absolutley false. The debt peaked at £150.4m in 2010.

          • Billmag

            Apologies, it was actually £70ml and the club is in debt to the tune of £144ml.

          • TheFatController

            Either way, let’s not distract ourselves from the point that he’s a terrible owner, and we can’t get new owners whilst he over prices the club for whatever his reasons are.

            There’s too much distraction on here from the very basic point that everyone is miserable – the fans (aka customers) Rafa (aka hugely influential employee)!, even Ashley and his associates now we are fighting back majestically

  • Jonas

    The policy of doing as little as possible and running the risk of relegation to suit the owner is business as usual.
    maybe now you cant buy young players with sell on values without paying contemporary prices – so he’s out

  • Leazes.

    I once had an argument with Ryder and he said the ‘stats don’t lie’ but that’s another story (and yes they do in the wrong hands….his!)

    He’s gone strangely silent on the ‘stats’ as he calls them of these acquisitions and bargain buy assortment of relegation failures…. there’s a reason for that….. there’s nothing and I repeat nothing to suggest a defender who leaks goals and strikers whose ambition it is one day to reach double figures are the way forward, and attributing them to Benitez…..well….

    So what does Ryder do instead….. he goes searching the internet for people who say things like ‘bargain’ and ‘solid player should fit in well’ and he quotes them!

    They are out there lurking, and Ryder is now bin-dipping for positives….you couldn’t make it up!

    What a tramp!

    • kingfisher

      As you say Leazes, you could’nt make it up.Unfortunately we don’t have to make it up as this is NUFC and these things are the norm.If a film maker wanted to make a film about Newcastle and the running of the club etc, it would get thrown out as completely unbelievable, a work of fiction.

  • Megatron1505

    And once more with feeling…..

    THERE IS NO DEBT, ONLY THE BILL CHARGED TO THE CLUB FOR THE OWNERS POOR BUSINESS DECISIONS.

    If you buy into the lie of debt then you don’t understand how debt works.

    • Ben Jones

      Provvy loans coming out his ears this poster

      Posted from his brighthouse laptop

      • mactoon

        Ahh man I remember my mam getting up to the ears in provident loans to buy my Christmas presents. Bless her

    • mactoon

      so you’re saying a loan does not count as debt and does not have to be repaid? I’m buying a house soon, I’ll try that one with the mortgage company 🤓

      • Megatron1505

        What loan? Who to and who from? What was the reason?

        • mactoon

          Not sure if you are being flippant but here goes..

          Ashley bought the club without doing due diligence, he found the club had a debt of around £100 million so he has loaned the club £129M interest free, and that amounts to around £6.45M saved each year at 5% interest rate. He has since loaned further amounts to cover the relegation season and I think the current amount the club owes him is £144 million

          • Megatron1505

            Ah the old due diligence lie. Where rational people peddle the fairytale about the billionaire who employed the most expensive law firm in the land (Freshfields) to make his (at the time) most expensive purchase…and (whoops) they forgot to look at the accounts.

            Because that’s a believable story isn’t it?

          • mactoon

            Yup from John Hall’s mouth. He went to London and expected preliminary talks but says,

            “I went down to London and I only went down for the day initially.
            When I got there Ashley’s team ushered me into a huge lawyer’s office of people. Literally they wanted to do the deal there and then.
            I said: ‘What about due diligence?’ They said: ‘We don’t want to do due diligence, we just want to do it quickly.’”

            The fact remains the accounts show Ashley has provided £144 million of loans to the club payable on demand.

          • Megatron1505

            So it is a bill for his poor business practices, exactly as I said. If you choose to believe that story from a bloke who had just been given a sizeable suitcase full of money, either way my post is correct.

            They term it as a “loan” on the balance sheet, but what it actually is is a cost of doing business poorly. A cost which he fully intends to pass on to the next owner to cover the cost of his own idiocy.

          • mactoon

            It is a loan to cover the financial implications resulting from poor business decisions of Hall and Shepherd who were responsible for putting the club in financial difficulty. Ashley inherited that debt when he bought the club, covered it with the loans and will pass on that debt as part of the purchase price when he finally sells up. He has added to that debt because of the way he runs the club, his business model is unsustainable for a football club but the initial debt is down to the previous ownership

          • Megatron1505

            Right, so he buys the club 100%, doesn’t look at the books even though he has the most expensive legal firm in the country and then (to his horror) finds out that his record purchase owes money on the ground.

            So he then “loans” the club (himself) money to cover the “debt” which is entirely not his fault even though he and his expensive legal team didn’t bother to look at the books.

            Is that what you choose to believe in a nutshell (nutcase)?

            You’re either an extremely gullible simpleton, or a troll. Either way, i’m done trying to educate pork.

          • mactoon

            There is no need for the abuse. I am not a gullible simpleton, a troll, a nutcase or ‘pork’ whatever that is. I am simply stating facts that are set out in the accounts and quotes from John Hall.

            It is widely known the club was in massive debt due to Hall and Shepherds overspending and Ashley has covered that debt in the form of an interest free loan in order to achieve his goal of making the club self-sufficient so he doesn’t have to put any more of his money into it. Granted the loans will have tax advantages for his other Mashly companies but the fact remains he is using funds from his other companies in order to run NUFC.

            If you choose to not believe that, back it up with facts instead of abusing someone who is quoting well known facts.

          • Megatron1505

            He can’t loan money to himself, what is so hard to understand about that? He is the 100% sole owner, if he is loaning money to the club he is loaning it to himself. Jesus wept.

          • Desree

            Anyone who defends Ashley does not have Newcastle Uniteds best interests at heart.

            The US voted for Donald Trump, most people voted for Brexit with no plan. So it is no surprise that we have so many sheep on this site.

          • kingfisher

            Spot on Desree.The shepherd whistles and calls the tune,and the sheep follow meekly taking the club into oblivion.🐏🐑🐏🐑🐏🐑

          • mactoon

            And yet the fact remains it is a debt attached to the club which is repayable upon the sale of the club as part of the purchase price.

          • Megatron1505

            No, the fact remains that the odious cretin expects someone else to pick up the bill for his stupidity, so he calls it a debt. Then the press and some morons on the internet propagate that lie on his behalf.

  • Stephen Paylor

    If Gayle goes in a swap with Rondon it will be a Rondon loan and Gayle sale. Rondon will not be viewed as a good permanent signing at almost 29 years old. It would mean maybe an extra 10 to 12 million for us. We would have Rondon, Muto, Joselu, Ayoze with Armstrong likely off on loan again. We would have proceeds from Mitro, Merino, Gayle, Mbemba and some installment money from Sissoko/Thauvin plus this 12 million from Gayle/Rondon swap. Close to 70 million? Spent maybe 15 million. 55 million net profit and a squad maybe the same as last year in the second half of the season. Rafa would scrape survival and we would be the only club in the league to have a net surplus from player trading and more than 50 million too. It is incredible.

    • Martin Rooney

      So no loan fee for Rondon? if he signs Kenendy, Signing on fee for KI and his agents, Likely cost of Schar, Dbravka, Muto. Likely around £25 million spend there. But I get the point even if income is just £60m that could still leave £35m left over and that should someone very much better than Rondon.

    • Ben Jones

      Do you have the next lottery numbers n’all?

    • Superdooperhooper

      You forgot about the instalments from townsend and winjaldum as well .

    • mactoon

      not exactly proceeds from Mitro, Merino, Gayle and Mbemba in terms of the full transfer fees because they would be paid in instalments too. For example Mitro has just gone for an undisclosed fee on a 5 year deal, if that is the reported £22 million we will only receive £4.4 million IF the first payment is made during this window..

  • Martin Rooney

    Not sure it was the big lad but if it was he was right to do so

    ‘Ashley also wouldn’t give the go ahead to loan deals with big loan fees attached, as well as no option to buy. Tammy Abraham a case in point, the striker eventually going to Swansea instead, who were reported to have paid £5m to loan him for the season (as well as almost £8m to loan Renato Sanches from Bayern Munich’

  • Mrkgw

    Well that’s Mitro officially gone. Idiots.